May 10 2008
Justified by Our Sins
What would happen if we taught (and applied to our own lives) with conviction that sin was ANYTHING that controls us? Which could include: cell phones, internet, television, video games, sex, cigarettes, chewing tobacco, gambling, illegal or prescription drugs, money, soda and well you get the idea. A good bench-mark test: Can you say NO? And, what are your thoughts focused on after you say NO?
If you must have it and your thoughts are fixed on it, it is sin! We need to get honest with ourselves and God.
Over my 36 years of life, this is the first time I’ve been awakened to this fact. You are right, I’ve walked around with a cigarette in my mouth telling others about the sins they were harboring. How hypocritical of me. Don’t get me wrong when I first started smoking it was not a sin, because I could live with it or without it, it was just a cool thing to do. But now I wake up to it, eat with it, run out of church to it and live with it. Yes it has become sin. Now it is time for me to seek the help that I need through God’s holy wisdom.
I wonder what my life would look like if I was always craving God like I do my tobacco.
I do not agree with you. I smoke and have for years and it does not make it a sin. It is a sin when people like yourself go around trying to make us more like yourself. Sitting on your thrown of judgement and condemning those that don’t fit the mold.
Is it a sin to eat? We all crave it!
I would tend to agree more with Cindy. It isn’t against the law and even priests smoke and drink. This sounds much more like a cult trying to program people. They way you put it sin can pretty much be anything! That is ridiculous, I enjoy a beer or two after work, have I too sinned? I helps me to wind down for the stress of this world.
YOUR AN IDIOT! WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ME OR ANYONE ELSE! GO BACK UNDER THE ROCK YOU CAME.
I am saddened by the darkness many are walking in. Please take a few minutes and read other articles on this site and you will see what kind of man Pastor Larry is. Then seek God, in hopes that the blinders of the world could be lifted so that we all can see clearly the truth.
First, being a former Christian, I decided to read the Bible in its entirety so that I would be able to reply to any who questioned me, though obviously I cannot remember all that I read. I can only say that my close examination of the Bible revealed that it is nothing less than a book of horrors, which I never read in Sunday School. Obviously, I was never taught about the violence and cruelty and killings at Sunday School; I remember, like everyone else, the nice, beautiful verses, which I later realized had been carefully selected to lull us into a false sense of comfort, while the “bad” verses were deliberately hidden from our view.
It is points like this that helped me to move to the true faith in me and not mans manipulative religion. Release yourself and enjoy life to its fullest.
Eat, Drink and Be Happy.
This is a hard subject for me also, I too have a beverage of choice. So I guess the question is, when does it become a sin? Is it when you drink, desire it or something else? Is it a sin to drink for the calming effect? I haven’t even got into the sexual lust thing (for my husband, he’s hot). So, so many questions I’ll stop at this for now.
Honestly I don’t think I like this topic much, but I needs to be discussed from what I’ve seen above.
I agree wholeheartedly with this post.
What is it that we put before God. When someone is smoking a cigarette, do they think, man I can’t wait to finish this so that I can get back to God. Or do we think, I can’t wait for church to be over so that I can have a smoke. I smoked for 10 years and know how addicting or repetitive it can be. Just ate, gotta smoke, having a beer, gotta smoke, in the car, gotta smoke, etc. (This is merely an example I am using.)
I’m not saying that smoking or drinking or other things are a sin. But we can make them a sin, if they become our idol (something we put before God). If something has control of us them, yes, it is a sin. Meaning if we can’t go without something, then it controls our lives. No, this isn’t some crazy cult idea, just a great way for us to self reflect on what we put first in our lives.
God bless
I obsess with becoming the next master Jedi, would that be my sin?
SWOOSH SWOOSH, feel the power of my saber!
What you feel is a sin is a sin to you fine. Don’t try to make it a sin for all of us. I smoke and enjoy it and I feel in my heart that God is just fine with it. Smoking is not a crime. How do you put smoking and illegal drugs in the same category? WHATEVER!
Happy mothers day all. Smoke’m and chug’em if you’ve got’em. Party like its 1999. You cant bind me, sucher.
Smoking is a sin? I didn’t know that. My dad has smoke for years and he is on a church board for years. I think I understand, but struggle with it. It has been accepted in the churches I’ve been in forever. Now you point to it as a sin. I understand why so many are upset. I’ll sit on the fence and see who this all pans out before I decide. Honestly (and it hurts) I am leaning toward Larry’s position, but not totally sold.
Jimmy Mac, because you saw it as a sin in your life, which is your freewill, fine. You can’t say that all smoking is a sin. That is a pious and an intolerant view.
Give it a break will you. This is just a foolish discussion. Trust your own heart.
It is just like you christians to condemn, just like you do over The festival of Samhain. Live and let live, love and let love. Peace be with all of us as we celebrate our unique lives. Smoking and even alcohol is just an external action and part of many religious ceremonies. That’s one way to show other religions wrong isn’t it.
Christianity is more like Big Brother “The Government” regulating all that we can and can’t do.
Have many of you lost your minds. Just like the biblical illustration about the love of money. It isn’t the money, but the obsessive desire for it. Apply this to all the things of your life and see how you fare. If you are honest with yourself you will see the very clear biblical truth and application that Larry is discussing with us all. We want more out of our relationship with God, we need to go deeper and be real with him and ourselves.
Tabatha, what is your problem! Larry has never gone to your web site pushing his beliefs or condemning you. You have no right to come here to trash him or the work he is trying to do. Do you remember our last conversation. You promised to be open to Christian thoughts and beliefs. Maybe our ways are wrong and we too have been totally blinded by our desires. I honestly believe there is truth and practical application in the things Larry speaks. This is not the typical emotionally manipulating religious propaganda, but thought provoking practical self reflection. Please open your eyes and heart my friend.
I can say no to most things, but yet all the things listed I like. How do i fit into the Christianity scene. Would I be accepted or condemned? What about tattoos? To me personally I think this article is edging toward fundamental legalism.
(deep breathe) So if my son doesn’t want to go to church because he would rather play his Xbox 360, does that make him a sinner and then is condemned to the deep pits of the hell christianity has created to scare us into church?
Hi Tanya,
I think the thing to first point out is that this post is not for new believers. The great thing about God is that He meets (accepts) you where you are, you don’t have to jump through hoops to come to Him. Yes, if we allow God, He will change and mold us into the people we should be (but that’s with time).
This post IS for those of us that have been Christians for some time. Is it ok to have a smoke or beer or snickers bar? Yes. As long as those things do not control our thoughts and lives. If we put our house, car, plasma TV, or money before of God; then what is the difference with putting cigarettes, drinking, or drugs between us and God.
I don’t think this post is about legalism. It’s more for us to reflect on our lives and what is the top to bottom priorities on our list.
God bless
My first thought is, “I am not surprise by any of these comments”. So as I reflect please take sometime to consider the words of Dallas Willard, , “Spirituality” wrongly understood or pursued is a major source of human misery and rebellion against God.”
It is the man-centered religious institute that is at fault. We have not taken the time to lovingly teach nor exhibit, the depth of love, grace and patience God extends to all of us. Church in itself should look messy at best.
Think about it, sinners all coming together in one location to worship God. That is one broad stroke of a brush.
I haven’t been on this site for weeks, yet I came today and now I know why. I look forward to reading your position.
This article is certainly controversial and the posts, oh my gosh. I’ve been living in a vacuum, I had no idea people had justified their lives and lifestyles over things like cigarettes. I just hadn’t given it much thought. And I know the church has either given it little or great concern because of it’s lack of clarity or position publicly on these subject in general. Granted if you were to ask a minister more than likely he would say that an addition to smoking was a sin, but to open it up for public reflection. Some churches would end up closed because of the mass revolt.
My prayers are with you Larry. May the broken hearts be receptive to the counsel and may the counsel love and embrace the broken hearted people.
I too can see how this post could cause so many to become defensive, bottom line is, if it comes before your relationship with God or causes any one else pain or causes a fellow brother or sister to stumble in their faith it is a sin. If you are a child of God you should not argue this fact. Unless you are not reading scripture.
I used to live my life wondering when the next party, cigarette or drink would come and then I grew up. As far as the person asking about their son not wanting to go to church, shame on you as a parent. Thank the Lord our children are saved by grace for a period of time, so we as parents are responsible for showing our children how to make good decisions in their life, God gave them to us for a reason, we should thank him every day for the blessing and make sure that we are able to give them back to Him when he calls them. Children should not have the choice to decide anything for themselves, they are children and simply cannot make rational decisions. We have so many lost Parents in our world and therefore they are raising lost Children.
Typically, when people become confrontational they are trying to defend something they too know is wrong. God does not need me to defend his word. He just needs us to believe in him to guide our paths. So let Him.
Terri jo, who are you to judge our parenting skills. When our kids grow up they are held accountable for their own choices.
Many of us are confrontational when other accuse blindly, like yourself
James, try keeping everything in context. Terri did nothing wrong. We are all entitled to our opinion, right or wrong. Extend the grace given ou.
The way I see it, if you drink and smoke for the physical effect, it is sin. PERIOD! I know you can have a beer with pizza and it’s tastes great or a glass of wine with a certain meal and it magnifies the flavors, but come on to drink for the pleasure of it’s own flavor is tempting Satan and that is sin. Look closely at the scriptures, it is very clear on this point. May the Lord give you the spiritual eyes to see His true word.
Please don’t justify anymore.
One of the best posts I’ve ever seen, you go Larry!
This is so subjective, the variables are great. For the sake of argument I will look only at alcohol. It is not a sin to have a bottle of alcohol, yet if consumed can certainly become sin. We have liberty in all things good, but all things are not good for us. Alcohol can be good for improved health, yet it can also kill you (alcohol poison). It is a sin to consume to lose control of our faculties. This does not mean we must be considered stupid drunk. See a single glass of wine or one can of beer is harmless on there own, but who stops at one.
The bible is actually silent on the use of alcohol in minimal quantities. Yet is also full of warnings to avoid the spirits that stir in the glass. It is easy indulge, just as a any drunk.
So even though you can drink and it a liberty, a mature christian would rather abstain to help keep weak young christians from falling into sin. Remember if we cause another to stumble while weak in the faith we too are responsible for that.
So in short, avoid those things that cause controversy and may be used to justify not be a follower of Christ.
I think I’ve made my decision, to abstain for the sake of others. I’m young and hang with lots of drinkers. I understand that drinking doesn’t make me a sinner but it sure makes it hard for me to talk with them when I look and act just as them.
I grew up in a smoking and drinking house and to this day, I wish I had never been over exposed to those self indulgences. I cannot take back the things I’ve done, but I sure can learn and share my story with others. So if your on the fence like me, think. What do I really loose by freely choosing to give up stuff that is not beneficial for both me or the body of Christ.
Today, I will start taking the higher road not to judge but to love and embrace the lost world which we live. Thanks again Pastor for your openness and patience with all of us.
I forget where I read it, but there is a direct correlation to drinkers, smokers and financial trouble. From what I remember, they did not realize the great cost associated with their habits. This is one of the many reasons I quite smoking two years ago. It is costly, unhealthy, unattractive and certainly doesn’t bring glory in any way to God. Seek first the kingdom. You will never out give God, and this applies too to giving up those thing in this world to we so want or have become addicted to. Give them up and let the Lord bless your willingness to live your life for Him.
I don’t understand any of you. It’s your life, whether you have a single glass of beer or a cigarette who is really hurt. I don’t see how it is sin in any shape or form. So if I do these things does it make me less of a Christian or what. Now you can judge and condemn me right.
Question anyone: If I drink and my children see me drink whether it is a single glass or not what message have I given them? What would they think if I received a bottle of JBean for my birthday from a dear old friend? Am I sending them a mixed, confused (screwed up) message when I tell them they can’t drink? Would this not also apply to cigarettes?
So how do you draw the line if at all? This is all to confusing, I shouldn’t be this difficult.
Are you guys for real? Giving up smoking for who or what, a myth, folklore wonderful children stories. People get a clue and don’t get sucked into such nonsense. If you have a brain, you can clearly see that this is all propaganda. It’s your life live it for yourself.
We must be very careful not to justify our lifestyle because we like it. All I will say is look at the word of God and test your life against all of it. I feel drink and cigarettes are a sin. They hurt your body, cause and even justify others to use, then even have a negative effect of the income God provides for us, and it just looks down right bad at best. Personal view
Think about this, if we are to manage the things God has blessed us with, which would include salaries, would God buy you a bottle of booze, a six pack of beer or a pack of cigarettes. Be honest with yourself, it just doesn’t even sound right.
I am also saying that this is a spiritual binding that me must grow to understand under proper teaching so that we will feel it a honor to bind ourselves. If it is by the authority of the church, you will rebel or be a hypocrite. Just looking at the issues and pray.
Where is Larry, I thought he said he was going to expound on his original post.
It’s look to me like this subject has been covered well without my 2 cents. But I will briefly reflect on a couple of points. I don’t think I need to discuss the 10 commandment, do we?
So lets reflect specifically on Alcohol and Cigarettes
Are the things sin in themselves? No
Can they turn into sin? No, they are just things
Can we abuse them? Yes
We sin when we allow anything to come between us and God.
We sin when we allow other thing to control us.
We sin when we abuse things.
We sin when we purposefully abuse ourselves.
We sin when what we are doing as a mature Christian causes confusion or stumbling in another’s spiritual growth.
Do I encourage drinking or smoking? No
Will I condemn you for either? No
Has God condemned you? No
Can you drink & smoke yet come to our church? Yes
Do I feel spiritually mature Christian’s drink or smoke? No, usually we are prepared to joyfully sacrifice for the greater good of others. Remember the reward is to come after the earthly death. Yet we may struggle, slip and fall from time to time, we’re only human. I am so thankful that God is my example of what patience looks like.
I like the interesting point that Just John made on the position of being a good manager of our finances. Could you see God purchasing a pack of cigarettes?
I don’t think we can try to apply the body is the temple and we must care for the temple (a totally abused point) when we eat and drink all the stuff that is loaded with sugar and who knows what else.
Bottom line, live your life the best you can. Study and live your life as Christ lived his. God accepts us as we are but will continue to change us (spiritual growth) into the person we were created to originally be. And think about it, it takes our entire LIFE to be transformed into that person (after the physical death).
Have I left a loose hold on this subject? Yes, lets just learn patiently and grow up together in God’s glorious love. Through Him all things are possible. Lets try living our lives like this.
Church is messy at best, so lets get messy together and celebrate the peace, hope, love, patience and grace that God has extended.
Larry, sound advice. Patiently love and extend grace while we disciple them through God’s word, not time frame or formula, so yes that means it will be messy as you put. Giving all authority to the Holy Spirit to bind them as they mature in their walk. I wish more people understood this. We have the authority to declare God’s authority, but we are not that authority.
I can live with this answer, it allows me to decide what is right or wrong. God has not told me that its bad so I will continue to smoke.
S Kerr, have you not been reading, it isn’t up to us to decide, it is allow God to work through us and He will give you a discerning heart. We can’t live by our emotions. This can only happen in people that have submitted to God, study His word and long to please the Master for all that He’s already done. One must mature (grow) to be a Christian. Saying a prayer and going to church has little (almost insignificant) to do with your faith.
Christianity is selfless not selfish. Maybe you need to get a bible that you can understand, I’ll bet if you own a bible it’s King James and it makes no sense to you.
S Kerr and Others
A tall tale sign of ones maturity shows when we look for justification outside of what Christ has done. Once you fully embrace the truth of Christ, you can begin to grow as Larry put so well, into the person God originally intended us to be. But that’s the ultimate leap of faith, trusting God with our DEATH.
We best be studying and preparing for this test, we only get one shot at this death thing.
Pastor Larry this would be a wonderful time to repost your, To Tattoo or Not message. Here’s the link. http://www.verticalresponseministry.com/blog/2007/11/14/to-tattoo-or-not-is-that-the-real-question/
Bev, great thought, I’ll get on that this evening.
Where in the bible does it say that smoking is a sin. I’ve never heard this and has always been acceptable in every church i’ve attended.
If smoking is a sin, would I be sinning if I was on the patch? Nicotine is nicotine, right as many of you say sin is sin?
Seriously, if it isn’t hurting others and it brings pleasure to you, what does it really matter? I know many wonderful Christians that enjoy smoking.
People, lets stop and think about what we are saying an doing in the name of Jesus.
Is what we do bring glory to God?
Would Jesus do what you are or want to do?
Would you do it in front of or with Jesus?
If you need to find a way to make it OK, maybe it was never OK?
Would God be pleased with your choices?
These are the kinds of question, we as growing Christians need to ask ourselves. No it’s not the job of the church to bind and control us. But we are to submit to the will of God also, which would like each of us to live together for the one common good. That good is Christ Jesus.
The mere fact that you are asking if it is really a sin or how can it not be a sin tell you that your questioning it. Stop questioning and do what is right before God and stop thinking only of yourselves.
The truth has been placed on each of our hearts.
Can we PLEASE get off the smoking argument!!!!!! Smoking was just on example Larry used in this post and I see the majority of those who are offended are smokers (go figure). He also mentioned gambling,to widen the scope of the argument. Is it a sin to take $50 and go to the casino for an evening? I would say no,purely based on my understanding of this post. But would it be a sin if we went to the casino night after night. Which caused us to neglect our families,affected our job and turned in to a $5,000 a week habit. Where we in turn loose our car, our home and family because gambling is our greatest priority. Then YES gambling is now a sin. Look at the big picture, instead of focusing on your own vice, and see if it makes a difference.
Hear hear Kavi I totally agree with you!!! Get over it people you are yourself making it a big issue not Larry so give it up. And don’t you see read or hear your own thoughts you are just trying to justify yourselves or maybe loved so you have no burdens on your hearts and you can be carefree and copacetic. Whatever well spoken Kavi obviously these people that say all this stuff about Larry haven’t read very much on this site. Cause if they had they’d know it’s about the heart of the smoker gambler drinker ect. that matters to Larry wait, NOT Larry GOD! I think I knocked my soap box over peace out Later Vader!