There are those things that are essential to being a Christian (foundational) and those that are not. Foundational essentials include: Faith, God, Holy Spirit, Jesus the Son of God, the atonement of sin, origin of sin, Jesus lived and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, Angels, Heaven, Hell, marriage union of one man and one woman, creation, the virgin birth, Bible is inspired word of God and personal accountability rounds that out. I fully note and agree that even a list as this has weaknesses and does not represent the passionate and holistic nature of what following Jesus is all about.
Other the other hand, here are a few examples of items left on the table for OPEN discussion: method of worship, feet washing, day of worship, length of worship, make-up, piercings, hair color, hair styles, flip flops, penny loafers, bowling shirts, ties, song books, projectors, 5 song worship services, beer, shorts, slacks, Calvinism, Arminianism, and local church government. These are just a few of the things that make us all unique, not necessarily wrong. Just different!
If your Savior is Christ Jesus just as He is mine, then we must agree on the essential issues. The later, lets talk and agree that we will never ever agree on everything.
It is these later issues that church bodies should be raised. And you know what, that’s all right as long as we agree on the essentials (1 Cor 15:1-8) as the foundation and remain loving to the entire body of Christ. Those that have split over carpet colors, seating or parking spots have expose their hearts and their lack of biblical understanding. I’ll go so far as to add the lack of spiritual discernment on the behalf of the leadership also. There is accountability on both sides, after all we are all human, make mistakes and tend to pass blame. It takes two!!!
If you are attacking the body, just maybe you’re the cancer (just a thought). And like cancer, it attacks and must be cut away from the body so that the body may survive and heal. Matthew 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Just me thinking out loud
Wednesday, 30. January 2008
Why don’t you stop thinking out loud!
Wednesday, 30. January 2008
Why don’t you stop thinking out loud!
Wednesday, 30. January 2008
Welcome Henrietta,
It appears you are new to the blog world (only need to hit submit once) or your trying to make a statement. Either way, welcome, welcome, welcome (my statement). I encourage to stay awhile and take your shoes off. I look forward to your comments.
Curious though, do you like toenails?
If so see below
http://www.verticalresponseministry.com/blog/2008/01/30/those-stinky-toe-nails/
Wednesday, 30. January 2008
This is so true! We spend way too much time on silly little matters that have nothing to do with salvation. Jesus loves us so much. He doesn’t want us debating over meaningless topics that only take us further from His kingdom. Let’s focus on what God truly desires of us. 1 John 3:23 says “We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us.” That is the most important thing in my opinion, just love eachother, read the word, try to understand it to the best of your ability and put the rest in the Lord’s hands.
Wednesday, 30. January 2008
Sure sounds good on paper, but you’ve as I have watched over the year, over simplified it all.
Wednesday, 30. January 2008
Sounds good on paper, hardly. This guy is speaking heresy, do you see what he is telling our kids. No wonder the youth are running from the church. Where is the church in all of this. God gave very specific guidelines for us to live by. Not suggestions and ideas. True believers are of one body and those that disagree are removed and usually they start cults. May God have mercy on you. Repent! You can’t have your way. It is God’s written word, and the king james bible is it.
Friday, 1. February 2008
OK, someone needs to bit on this. Where do you place homosexuality? You state marriage is between one man and one woman. If you don’t agree are you going to hell?
Friday, 1. February 2008
I’m with you, Slippery Slope. I am interested in how he will answer your question. Got a shovel.
Friday, 1. February 2008
Here we go again. People thinking, “lets cause an uprise with the ol’ homosexuality question.” If you want an answer here is mine.
If you truly believe in the bible, it states in there numerous times that homosexuality is wrong and it is a sin. But the world wants to place “sin” on some kind of giant scale. Sin is sin. From a liar, to stealing a pen, to, yes, homosexuality. Nothing is different in God’s eyes (and we should thank Him for that daily). It is just sin, keeping us from our Lord and Savior. Now before anyone says, “but they say they are born that way.”, you know what, so does a pedafile. But each of us has free will, and the ability to react on our desires.
This is not a bash against homosexuality, because I love them as much as I love my brothers and sisters in Christ. And I want to show people that it doesn’t matter where you are when you find the Lord, for He will take you as you are. If God could forgive me of my sin, at the time I came to Him, He’ll always do the same for everyone else.
Thank you Lord for forgiving me of ‘any’ of my sins against you and not scaling them as if some where worse then others. Thank you for your grace and unfailing love Father.
Friday, 1. February 2008
Jimmy Mac,
Who do you think you are! Diminishing human beings to mere sins. Shame on you. People are born this way and have no control over that. For some, this is the hands God dealt them and for you to sit here in judgement. You sir are the one in contempt.
I too will be interested to see where Larry stands. I’ve looked over his blog and he has remained silent. UNTIL NOW!
Friday, 1. February 2008
WOW, I never realized how many people were truly angry with God’s word. It breaks my heart to see the blaspheme. I will be in constant prayer for those of you who truly are lost and just want to slander those who are trying their best to lift up and glorify our Lord and Savior. Just a note, I know Pastor Larry personally and have for a very long time, He once was lost just like some of you. God blessed him with the desire and heart to minister to others. You will never meet a man so kind, loving and committed to or Lord and all who he comes in contact with. Lost, Saved, Homosexual, straight, it doesn’t matter to him. He will love you for the human being God made. However he will not stray from God’s word. Our life manual, The Holy Bible. May God bless you all and keep your heart open to his word.
Friday, 1. February 2008
Pattycake,
Why have you remained silent until now, there have been many great post on this blog. This is the typical subject that people will only touch on. As far as judging and diminishing people to mere sin, that is far from true. There is only one that can judge, my Lord and Savior. I am merely stating what his word has told me.
And what I’m talking about is the world wanting to rate sin 1 through 10 , from the worst to not so bad. All sin separates us from God, we all fall short. That is why He sent His son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins, for all of the Thiefs, Liars, Adulterers, Murderers, etc. That’s why we must cling to Him.
As far as no control over what you do, I don’t see that as correct. God gave us free will, the ability to do or not to do. I have that ability to lust after another women, to have hate in my heart, to react on my worldly desires.
But Paul made it very clear in Galatians 5:19-21, “When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.”
Why do people only want to touch on this subject. If someone is living for the Lord and abiding by his word then there is no issue.
Friday, 1. February 2008
So where is Larry? I see that he was on the blog and commented on another subject at 10:00 am. Yet silent on this?
Friday, 1. February 2008
Before Larry answers, here is my question to Slippery Slope, HimerusStar and PattyCake. What are your thoughts on this subject? You are very interested in what one man has to say ( and we all know why). But what are your thoughts first. Take a stand and explain why.
Friday, 1. February 2008
Are you his middle man, is your official title “screener” or “puppeteer”. I hope Larry is qualified to ask his own questions. By the way don’t assume anything, you don’t know why! How arrogant of you!
Friday, 1. February 2008
Greetings all. It looks like I need to separate a couple of you. (ha ha, it’s called humor). Seriously, I have a doctors excuse (really really). I’ve been at the dentist and feel yucky. So please be patient as I let the drugs wear off (so I don’t short out my apple lap top with drool) and seek God’s precious wisdom on this very personal and emotional subject.
Peace out
Friday, 1. February 2008
I’m sure Larry can fend for himself. This is MY question to you. It’s not arrogance, just curiosity. I’m not trying to back you into a corner. I just like to know what others have to say, what their thoughts are.
God Bless
Friday, 1. February 2008
hi evryone,
i think that some people need to lightenup the guys just asking a question no one has to get angry at him, heres a thought, why is it, and im guilty of this to, that when some one starts saying something about god that they think is right they get defensive and angry when there told the truth.
Friday, 1. February 2008
What did you just say? Are you on the right post?
Friday, 1. February 2008
I understand exactly what Dave T has said. Read carefully, Amen to you Dave T. Sometimes when we feel that what we have been taught is the whole truth and someone questions what we know to be truth we get very defensive. Be careful not to get angry at others it does not get you heard just laughed at. God Bless.
Friday, 1. February 2008
Oh, PS you may want to go back to the absolute Truth blog. It explains where we need to step lightly.
Friday, 1. February 2008
Alrighty then, as Jack Nicholson said to Tom Cruise, “You want the truth, you can’t handle the truth”, I write with love. Let’s clear something up. Written posts very seldom share the true feeling and compassion of a persons heart. It is very difficult to express emotions in context to what the writer is feeling. We can easily misunderstand any given statement pending the reader’s emotional state or the preconceived belief we have of the writer.
I write this with the greatest love and compassion that I can. I do not feel I am better, more important, smarter, better looking (well I am better looking than Jimmy Mac), you get the idea. I love life and the Savior that gave it to me and long for everyone to have Him also. So the subject of homosexuality is difficult at best. We can’t just throw out answers without clear understanding. After all, we are talking about God’s creations, both men and women. And since I have not struggled with it myself, I do not fully understand or comprehend this personal battle. But as a human being I too struggle, I do understand struggling with sin, we all do. Anyone that says that they never struggle with temptation (sin) are LIARS! Even Christ struggled in the garden (temptation of his fleshly desire) longing for what was to come very soon (His crucifixion) to pass by Him. Yet He chose not to act upon with desires, seeking only to bring glory to the Father.
Just as sin came into the world, we on that very day began to break down and die. You hear people say it’s not fair that I have these desires, I didn’t ask for them and that is just who I am and I can’t change that. You know what, your right. You did not ask and you cannot change, but God can do anything.
What about men that cannot stay faithful to their wives? They will tell you that they did not ask to be this way and cannot control themselves. What about men that beat their wives and distort God’s word to justify their sinful life. What about those that are addicted to drugs or alcohol? What about those that lust after children? What about killers like Timothy McVeigh? They all say that this is how they are, they did not ask to be this way. Does that make it acceptable? The real problem is whether or not we act upon our desires. I am not trying to play down or up the significance homosexuality. Just bring to light what is dark.
Several years ago a close friend asked me if they were going to Hell because they were a homosexual and I said yes. Was I wrong then? More yes than no. Read closely please. Did we discuss the condition of their heart to discover that they had been struggling with it for years? No. This person understood God’s word to say that it was wrong yet they still had sexual desires. This person longed to please God and struggled every day with their feelings. Yet had not acted upon them in several years.
I am not going to throw several bible verse at you. You’ve more than likely read them and either accepted it as true or sought answers that were more to your liking. But, Before we go any further lets look at 1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (NLT) together. I promise this will be the only one. You might even be a little surprised at the outcome.
But just before we read and continue our discussion take a moment and just ask God to give you the eyes to see and the heart to feel His deepest desire for each of His beautiful creations.
Let’s read…
8 Instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong and cheat even your fellow believers.
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.
What I want to focus on is not the word homosexuality (surprised) but the words indulge and practice. I like how it is explained in the NLT. It fits much better with the rest of God’s word. I can apply and see the life of Christ played out more completely as it is written here.
Look at the word indulge: To yield to an inclination or desire; allow oneself to follow one’s will. This is the problem we ALL have. We indulge in a lie, a website, a magazine, a neighbors wife or their car.
Now Practice: habitual or customary performance; (and my favorite) repeated performance or systematic exercise for the purpose of acquiring skill or proficiency
As I read all of God’s word, it is not sinners that will go to Hell (Let’s get real). We are the sinners, period. It is the choice to indulge and be in practice of our desires that will drive us straight to Hell. So the person I had talked to about going to Hell for being homosexual, I had to apologize to. I did not know (had I chose to have a conversation) the struggle they had. This person is not going to Hell any faster than I am. They where not cheapening God’s word or twisting it to justify their life. They struggled with it. And (this is where I am going to get in trouble) if that person slipped (you know sex) they would not be banished to Hell. Was it their desire to indulge and practice or did they simply stumble like all of us do.
I am not trying to dumb sin in any way. Just trying to keep sin (singular, it’s all the same to God) in it’s place. Not allowing it to control.
Lets now answer the obvious question, is homosexuality a sin. According to God’s written word it is. This does not mean that God hates anyone, just the opposite. God does however hate sin (all sin equally). It is the condition of the heart that will determine where you go. If you make it OK saying it is not a sin, you are wrong not unloved.
Since I’m on a roll into a deep hole lets keep the momentum up. Will homosexuals go to Hell? This is a really stupid question! You are either a child of God or not. To say, will a homosexual go to Hell is like saying will a liar go to Hell. These are sins not people. All sin is banished from Heaven.
Where you will go depends on your heart and relationship with Christ. We can’t make excuses or justify any sin. We can only admit our failures and ask for the strength of the Holy Spirit to strengthen us to fight our desire.
My name is Larry. I am a lying, thieving, adulterous, murder and coveter at heart and Christ has cleansed me with His healing blood. That I may find the strength to seek the desires of my new Father God first.
I will stop here for the time and allow all of us sometime to stretch and reflect on God’s word.
I am not here to judge, but to share the good news that you may choose for yourself.
Friday, 1. February 2008
Interesting point you’ve made Larry. Must process now.
Saturday, 2. February 2008
You have not answered my questions?
“You state marriage is between one man and one woman. If you don’t agree are you going to hell?”
Saturday, 2. February 2008
Slippery Slope,
Do you literally mean, if you don’t agree with me will you go to hell? That is the only part of the question that I did not answer clearly, I Guess, well maybe. The point, you do not need to agree with me, I’m not the rule maker or judge. You and I will both answer to God for our choices in life. If we are biblical Christian’s we must stand on a few foundational facts thou.
I say read the bible, it is very clear on marriage (the union between a man and woman, see Genesis 2:24). You don’t need to ask me, simply read it. There is no need to change, twist or manipulate God’s word. We have free will to choose to either accept it or not. Either way, He will always love us. It is our own hearts that will drive us to Heaven or Hell.
I will send you my phone number and we can talk if you like about specifics.
God Bless
Sunday, 3. February 2008
Today in your message you stated we must separate the sin from the person. I know this is true and I know we must forgive but can you tell me how to separate the sin from a man who abused you for years and for a price would allow his friends to abuse you. I want to forgive but there is a little hurting child in me that can’t separate what happen as just sin.
Monday, 4. February 2008
Larry, love the way you put this.
God bless
Monday, 4. February 2008
Anne,
There has obviously been great pain in your life. My heart is so heavily burdened when I here such atrocities. I could easily explain it all away with the, “Jesus can take away your pain, if you give it to Him” or the “God has a wonderful plan and He is preparing you for something great from this tragedy, just you wait and see”, canned statements. I’m sure you’ve heard them and others many times over the years. Such statements can even begin to question ones faith or even the existence of God. So when we use scripture and statements as a catch-all, one size fits all doctrine, I believe that we end up doing more harm than good. I’m going to get the famous scarlet letter (Larry you heretic from this), but that’s OK. I know my Savior and His desire that He has placed on my heart.
The bible clearly says that God can and sometimes will remove our mental and physical pains completely. But the bible also talks of the thorns in our sides that God allows to remain for His greater good.
Here are a few obvious problems with all of our lives: There is no fix-all solution. No one size fits all formula-matic plan. We really can’t categorize the pain, feelings and experiences in someones life into a pretty clean little box. And frankly, we shouldn’t. We need to minister to the individual, we need to listen to and care for the unique person God created. Does this mean that we shouldn’t seek professional counseling, no we should. And such a case, I would urge seeking professional counseling from a Christ-centered person that has a strong understanding and relationship with the person; God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
From what I sense, you cannot explain away your pain and no one really knows how you feel. They may comfort, but know your feelings, no. Even when a person has experienced a similar situation they don’t really know how you feel. But God does. It may sound like a canned answer but He really does know your heart.
Here is the encouragement. We are told that we must forgive; not how long it takes or what it may look like in any given situation. For most of us forgiveness is a lifetime process. This doesn’t make you any worse or less a Christian, as some may like to guilt you into believing. God knows your heart and what’s really going on. He understands our individual strengths and weaknesses (abilities). He created each of us to be in fellowship with Him.
Remember, becoming a Christian is a life long process. No time cards, pretty formulas, attendance records, tithing reports or certificates of accomplishment get us to Christ Jesus. Just us accepting Him.
Seek the biblical Christ Jesus and professional help as fit. And over time (God’s perfect time) you will find a way (Through Christ) to over come.
I would like to recommend a book to you. “When You’ve Been Wronged”, by Erwin Lutzer. If you like, I will gladly get you a copy. The book won’t fix your past, but it will share with you many people from the bible that were wronged and how they found the strength to overcome.
In Erwin’s book he outlines four reasons to reconcile with others.
1.We must attempted reconciliation because of our witness to the world.
2. Christians pursue reconciliation in order to influence future generations
3. Without reconciliation, there is disunity, which weakens the body of Jesus
4. Reconciled Christians demonstrate the power of Christ’s gospel
The kinds of reconciliation
1. No reconciliation, when the other person refuses to reconcile with you
2. Partial
3. Full
And Satan’s Big Lies
1. God doesn’t care about my pain
2. If I’m hurting, I’m justified in making everyone around me equally miserable
3. When I forgive, I minimize the wrong I’ve suffered
I find that most people fit into Satan’s lie #1 or #3 most often.
I know I haven’t answered your question completely, and honestly I can’t. A blog, email or text messaging is not the place to try. Outside of Jesus, there just isn’t a simple solution in these situations. I could assume, speculate and guess and that would not be fair to you.
Please let me know if I can assist you with scripture or finding a Christian counselor in your area. You can either let me know here or through my email.
I feel as if I was of little help to you my friend, I pray that God will carry you through these times of trial.
God Bless
Matthew 11:28-30
28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”
Monday, 4. February 2008
Pastor
Thank you for your words you have helped more than you know. I have heard all of the canned statments and have been made to feel like a failure because I just can’t get over what happened to me. I have been through counseling and have come a long way but the forgivness part just seems to be so hard for me. After your sermon Sunday I needed to see where you stand and I thank you for your words today. I will get the book to see if it helps me with this issue. Thank you for allowing God to use you.
Tuesday, 5. February 2008
Where is your church and times of worship, we would like to visit sometime.
S. Kerr
Tuesday, 5. February 2008
Anne,
Humbly, I thank you! All the glory goes to God alone. God Bless
S. Kerr,
Here is a link with our information. Give me a shout when you come. God Bless
http://www.verticalresponseministry.com/pages/location.html
Tuesday, 12. February 2008
Anne, I pray for your continued healing. It is a life long process at best. I pray that the Lord will comfort and strengthen you.
God Bless
From another broken soul