Wednesday, November 15th, 2006 | Author: Larry Diehl

Is it true that a woman’s place in the church is sitting silently in the pew? If so then her place is also barefoot and pregnant, right! A few women have asked me about the role of women so as I began this journey it became clear to me that I was heading 100 mph down a dead end road with no brakes and only a brick wall to stop me.

Today’s culture with its racial and sexual tension screams to make examples of people that do not agree with their cause. So what do you do, remain silent or stand for what you believe as the truth. I have chosen the later, not with protest but with humility and great care. So as I begin we all must first agree that all the decisions that we make about scripture (even our lives) are effected by our culture, traditions and personal experiences (good and bad).

The first problem is that you cannot sit on the fence as an unbiased party, the world flings you to one side or the other (Pro or Con). Sadly enough people quickly assume everything except where you truly stand on a subject. This is much like spiritual maturity, it is not that a person is necessarily wrong about a specific passage of scripture, it is that, that is how they understood it at the time it was read, all based on their level of knowledge and wisdom. This is why the bible warns that we are all to continue growing in God’s word. Being the healthy vine that will from time to time be pruned, as much as that may hurt, for our own good and the good of the kingdom.

And did I mention grace; it is a horrible crime for a professing Christians to pass judgment on another over issues that are not concerning salvation. I have seen professing Christians refusing to speak to or associate with others over issues as petty at the parables and the 24-hour day; Are the parables real events or just wonderful stories and whether or not the 6 days of creation were truly based on our 24 hour system. Is it really that important that I agree with you on everything.

In light of all this, I ask that you open your mind and heart. And more importantly try not to read more into what is written, as I try not to create a 30-page manuscript. Simply put, this is my position, the position of our fellowship and I am not judging or trying to impose any of our bindings on you. Most importantly this is certainly not an issue of ones salvation, just ones understanding of scripture.

So the hard question, are women forbid to teach and to assume positions of leadership within the church? No, they are not. First we must define what teaching and leadership are. Teaching would include formal and informal training of men, women and children on specific subjects. Subjects the person is qualified to teach. As for leadership, the person must posses the qualities listed in 1 Timothy 3:8-13.

Yes, I know I’ve skirted the really big question, what about Senior Pastor? So are you ready? After earnest prayer and study I and our board have concluded that for our community a woman could not meet the requirements set fourth in 1 Timothy 3:1-7. That is, while keeping all scripture in its context clear back to genesis. This is not in any way implying that women are inferior to men. We are all equal, yet have very specific roles in God’s eyes.

It is clear that women in both the Old and New Testament played numerous roles of leadership. Roles that included: Deacans, Prophets, Judges and Ministers. There is no question about that and for the sake of those that are unaware of these roles let me quickly expound with this abridged list.

Contributing to the ministry: Luke 8:2-3
Evangelism: John 4:28-29
Ministering to Jesus: Matthew 26:10
Working side by side with men: Phillipians 4:3
Prophets: 1 Corinthians 11:5
Teachers: Acts 18:26 (as defined above, yes to men)
Deacons: Romans 16:1

I keep going back to this statement in Acts 2:23 “But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out… I can see this statement presented throughout the bible, God does know what will happen and God did create a plan and that plan started in Genesis. We must agree that there must be order or there is chaos. God’s plan starts with Man and follows with woman. God first spoke to Adam then Eve. This is not about male dominance but simple order. If we look at Ephesians 5 and 1 Corinthians 7 as models, these scriptures create a complicated intertwining partnership between men and women.

I can see the hate post coming already. Ladies here is the key problem, MEN. Yes men have not kept their end of the bargain and have taken advantage of their position. So but true, in the church you see women without their husbands. We see husbands warming the pews while their wives take on the ministry of both the home and church. So before a man can claim his biblical rights, he must first become the example for his own home and become like Christ. In other words Homer Simpson go home and repent!

Ladies I see your side of this argument, you work, care for our homes and train up our children as your husbands recite from memory the last 10 years of Monday night football line ups. So if the wife is the provider, caretaker and the spiritual leader in their home should they not also have the same rights in the church! Your complaint is valid, yet I go back (not as a cop-out, but with love for the Lord) to the statement God knew what would happen.

As I have listened to women and their positions on the subject, a question rings into my head. Politics! More commonly it sounds more like women are longing for a title (acknowledging all that women really do) and not considering the cost. If you want to teach and preach go and do it, there is nothing in the bible forbidding it. The title of Pastor does not get you a key to the executive bathroom and sauna (if your church has these run, run for your life) and the world could careless.

I can see that many people get the idea that “The Pastor” has exclusive rights and privileges. Just watch 5 minutes of television church and see the lights, glamour, expensive suite and flashy jewelry. If this is what you desire, it is not the position of a Pastor but the position of a god (little g). The Pastor should be one of humility, selflessness and service. Not one of title, right of passage and the glorifying of ones self.

What I find ironic is the position of the Pastor is one of serving and caring for all. If you already do that in your home and work wouldn’t it be nice to know that there was a place that you could fulfill your calling while knowing that there was someone to care for your needs as well. Drop your baggage at the door and allow the Lord to ministry to you. As a husband, father, grandfather, veteran and business owner, I’ve not found anything as demanding as pastoring, it is truly unending. The irony is that I get tired not of ministry but in ministry. There is a big difference.

Listen, as I said in the beginning, this is our position. In our church we have not stopped women from working. Quite the opposite, here is a quick brake down as to the women in positions of leadership in our church: board members, worship leader, director of children’s education, and various teaching positions. So women are not being suppressed in our church. They are the majority of our backbone, while allowing God’s order to remain.

In closing my hope and prayer is that I will continue to be submissive and not simply subjective to God’s word. As many flaws as my theology may have, I try to allow God’s word to shape me while consciously trying to avoid shaping God’s word around me and my foolish desires.

God Bless

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Wednesday, November 15th, 2006 | Author: Larry Diehl

Is it true that a woman’s place in the church is sitting silently in the pew? If so then her place is also barefoot and pregnant, right! A few women have asked me about the role of women so as I began this journey it became clear to me that I was heading 100 mph down a dead end road with no brakes and only a brick wall to stop me.

Today’s culture with its racial and sexual tension screams to make examples of people that do not agree with their cause. So what do you do, remain silent or stand for what you believe as the truth. I have chosen the later, not with protest but with humility and great care. So as I begin we all must first agree that all the decisions that we make about scripture (even our lives) are effected by our culture, traditions and personal experiences (good and bad).

The first problem is that you cannot sit on the fence as an unbiased party, the world flings you to one side or the other (Pro or Con). Sadly enough people quickly assume everything except where you truly stand on a subject. This is much like spiritual maturity, it is not that a person is necessarily wrong about a specific passage of scripture, it is that, that is how they understood it at the time it was read, all based on their level of knowledge and wisdom. This is why the bible warns that we are all to continue growing in God’s word. Being the healthy vine that will from time to time be pruned, as much as that may hurt, for our own good and the good of the kingdom.

And did I mention grace; it is a horrible crime for a professing Christians to pass judgment on another over issues that are not concerning salvation. I have seen professing Christians refusing to speak to or associate with others over issues as petty at the parables and the 24-hour day; Are the parables real events or just wonderful stories and whether or not the 6 days of creation were truly based on our 24 hour system. Is it really that important that I agree with you on everything.

In light of all this, I ask that you open your mind and heart. And more importantly try not to read more into what is written, as I try not to create a 30-page manuscript. Simply put, this is my position, the position of our fellowship and I am not judging or trying to impose any of our bindings on you. Most importantly this is certainly not an issue of ones salvation, just ones understanding of scripture.

So the hard question, are women forbid to teaching and to assume positions of leadership within the church? No, they are not. First we must define what teaching and leadership are. Teaching would include formal and informal training of men, women and children on specific subjects. Subjects the person is qualified to teach. As for leadership, the person must posses the qualities listed in 1 Timothy 3:8-13.

Yes, I know I’ve skirted the really big question, what about Pastor or Senior Pastor? So are you ready? After earnest prayer and study I and our board have concluded that for our community a woman could not meet the requirements set fourth in 1 Timothy 3:1-7. That is, while keeping all scripture in its context clear back to genesis. This is not in any way implying that women are inferior to men. We are all equal, yet have very specific roles in God’s eyes.

It is clear that women in both the Old and New Testament played numerous roles of leadership. Roles that included: Deacans, Prophets, Judges and Ministers. There is no question about that and for the sake of those that are unaware of these roles let me quickly expound with this abridged list.

Contributing to the ministry: Luke 8:2-3
Evangelism: John 4:28-29
Ministering to Jesus: Matthew 26:10
Working side by side with men: Phillipians 4:3
Prophets: 1 Corinthians 11:5
Teachers: Acts 18:26 (as defined above, yes to men)
Deacons: Romans 16:1

I keep going back to this statement in Acts 2:23 “But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out… I can see this statement presented throughout the bible, God does know what will happen and God did create a plan and that plan started in Genesis. We must agree that there must be order or there is chaos. God’s plan starts with Man and follows with woman. God first spoke to Adam then Eve. This is not about male dominance but simple order. If we look at Ephesians 5 and 1 Corinthians 7 as models, these scriptures create a complicated intertwining partnership between men and women.

I can see the hate post coming already. Ladies here is the key problem, MEN. Yes men have not kept their end of the bargain and have taken advantage of their position. So but true, in the church you see women without their husbands. We see husbands warming the pews while their wives take on the ministry of both the home and church. So before a man can claim his biblical rights, he must first become the example for his own home and become like Christ. In other words Homer Simpson go home and repent!

Ladies I see your side of this argument, you work, care for our homes and train up our children as your husbands recite from memory the last 10 years of Monday night football line ups. So if the wife is the provider, caretaker and the spiritual leader in their home should they not also have the same rights in the church! Your complaint is valid, yet I go back (not as a cop-out, but with love for the Lord) to the statement God knew what would happen.

As I have listened to women and their positions on the subject, a question rings into my head. Politics! More commonly it sounds more like women are longing for a title (acknowledging all that women really do) and not considering the cost. If you want to teach and preach go and do it, there is nothing in the bible forbidding it. The title of Pastor does not get you a key to the executive bathroom and sauna (if your church has these run, run for your life) and the world could careless.

I can see that many people get the idea that “The Pastor” has exclusive rights and privileges. Just watch 5 minutes of television church and see the lights, glamour, expensive suite and flashy jewelry. If this is what you desire, it is not the position of a Pastor but the position of a god (little g). The Pastor should be one of humility, selflessness and service. Not one of title, right of passage and the glorifying of ones self.

What I find ironic is the position of a Pastor is one of serving and caring for all. If you already do that in your home and work wouldn’t it be nice to know that there was a place that you could fulfill your calling while knowing that there was someone to care for your needs as well. Drop your baggage at the door and allow the Lord to ministry to you. As a husband, father, grandfather, veteran and business owner, I’ve not found anything as demanding as pastoring, it is truly unending. The irony is that I get tired not of ministry but in ministry. There is a big difference.

Listen, as I said in the beginning, this is our position. In our church we have not stopped women from working. Quite the opposite, here is a quick brake down as to the women in positions of leadership in our church: board members, worship leader, director of children’s education, and various teaching positions. So women are not being suppressed in our church. They are the majority of our backbone, while allowing God’s order to remain.

In closing my hope and prayer is that I will continue to be submissive and not simply subjective to God’s word. As many flaws as my theology may have, I try to allow God’s word to shape me while consciously trying to avoid shaping God’s word around me and my foolish desires.

God Bless

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3 Responses

  1. Hi Larry,

    I’ve always believed everything you have said here to be true, but I have a family member that wants to argue the fact that I woman should be allowed to be a Senior Pastor. My question is: You said that the person must posses the qualities listed in 1 Timothy 3:8-13. Is it simply because the bible is referring to a male and not a female in this passage that you believe this to be true? Just trying to clarify…thanks! ;)

  2. Singer,
    I am not avoiding your question. Busy busy. But to be fair and so that this issue is not lost in the great tide of lost content, I will post a message on the front page this weekend for all to chime in on. But to answer your immediate question. No it is not as simple as 1 Timothy.

    In Genesis 1 is says, 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. This is an over view of creation. In Chapter 2 we get specific. Verse 2, 18-25. Then we jump to Chapter 3 starting 17.

    This is just the starting point of discussion, Timothy comes as part of the close as we try to keep all God’s word in context.

    I would listen to this message about Adam & Eve. It doesn’t answer all the questions but does bring the wonderful excitement of the creation of Eve.

    http://www.verticalresponseministry.com/pages/audio/thislittlething.html

    I do have a question, why would someone care about such an issue unless they themselves felt they were being called to such a position? Please understand what I mean by this. Is this issue really that important when we have children hungry, women beaten and houses being foreclosed on in our own neighborhoods.

    What is the spiritual condition of our families, next door neighbors, coworkers and so on. Yet we feel a great need to spend time on a subject of position. Watch for the posting this weekend. I hope this holds you over.

    Just another open and bleeding thought from my heart, with love and compassion.

    Must bolt now, God Bless

  3. 3
    Beverly Friday 
    Saturday, 26. January 2008

    I have never really given much thought to this subject and frankly have had no need, thank you Jesus. Larry has made a valid point, if you have a pastor what’s the point of the discussion, go out and care for the lost, sick and injured of the world. Don’t let Satan (worldly issue) sidetrack God’s desire for us to server those that cannot serve them selves.

    If a group of believers understands God’s word, as they should have a God called man in the leadership position (good for them, if they have a pastor like ours or Larry) who are we to challenge God.

    If the leadership is not being lead by God leave and let God direct you to His house of worship. I believe a qualified man must represent the local congregation. If you don’t agree that’s OK, my sister thinks I’m wrong and the crazy thing is that I’m OK with that (no argument, why). Yet she can’t let it go and goes on and on every time we visit. The point is that it has no effect on whether I’ll go to Heaven or Hell. And we know we have a God called man in leadership.

    I’ll shut up with this, when you meet a truly submitted man of God you can’t help but want to be around him and serve WITH him. God will provide when we step back and allow.

    I’m praying for you Singer, my God carry your burdens for you.

    Sorry for rambling, it has been therapeutic for me also.

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